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感谢专业的阿叔 @睡にまび 提供部分修改建议<3

pasquey:

fyeahwintersoldier:

warrenworthingtonlll:

我第一次看队2的时候,我觉得这在电影中是个让人轻松一笑的场景,一个让我们可以嘲笑皮尔斯的建议完全被忽略的尴尬时刻。      

然而我开始认真的去读取场景中的信息。

当一个人建议给另一个人提供饮料的时候,这其实是一种开始社交关系的暗示,通过这种方式成为朋友;但是冬日战士是没有朋友的,他只有任务。

他去皮尔斯家因为皮尔斯是他的上司。冬兵不是去皮尔斯家跟皮尔斯来一杯或者谈论天气的;他是去那儿接受任务的。

因为这是冬兵一向的行径,仅此而已。他是效率的典范,一台机器。

但是皮尔斯虽然腐败堕落,他依然是一个做决策的正常人,可以自由选择一些微不足道的享受。他可以选择和一杯牛奶。

所以当皮尔斯给冬兵提议来一杯牛奶的时候,他明知坐在那里的“人”根本不会理会这个建议。

皮尔斯才不是问冬兵“又不要来一杯牛奶”。

这个场景根本就是皮尔斯在幸灾乐祸。他享受用自己的意志只是冬兵的权力,这是他在炫耀和宣示自己能喝牛奶的权利,再一次地向冬兵说明他不足以成为人类。     

我整个人都不太好了。    

 哦对,皮尔斯是世界上最腐败邪恶的人了。他也许不会是MCU里面榜上有名的或者威胁性大的反派,但是他是最恶毒和令人反感的人。他操纵每个场合还每次都侮辱Bucky。我曾经说过他不需要这样做只要给冬兵洗脑和将他的一直灌输给冬兵,但是他将时间放在滥用他的控制权、吹嘘他对冬兵的绝对权力,还有向捏粘土一样塑造冬兵。   

看看他向冬兵提议来杯牛奶的时候冬兵的表情,他其实有很大一部分情绪是被激怒了,那一刻就像是Bucky Barnes还有人性残存能够读懂皮尔斯这么做的深层原因。皮尔斯在嘲讽他的同时还在检测他,检测他是否不会有反应。然而因为冬兵的就收的就是不对任何问题产生反应,他已经被强迫着相信他没有任何的个人看法,所以他一句话也没有回复皮尔斯。反之,他耐心的等皮尔斯安排给他下一个任务。

而且,皮尔斯倒出来的牛奶只是皮尔斯一人量,一杯只是他一个人的牛奶,而不是跟别人共享的大杯装。这简直就是在将要渴死的人面前炫耀说自己有一啜水。这样的行为就证明了他的本性,实话说,他倒满一杯牛奶的话会更加的讽刺。而且这是牛奶,不是水,不是果汁,更不是酒精饮品,只是牛奶,一种你用来给小孩子喝的饮料。最重要的是,牛奶象征着卓越的品质、丰富的口感和营养。

这样毫不掩饰的炫耀自己的优越性。  

牛奶在所有文化传统中都是权力的象征,是一种永恒的液态生命体,代表生育的丰沃和富态;它还是神的食物,人类第一样食用的食物。牛奶无阻地流淌在应许之地迦南(Biederman, 221)。牛奶是母性的象征,和生命密切结合。   

去你妈的皮尔斯。  

我不同意这么说。在皮尔斯的意识里,他是一个好人,他的所作所为都是合理的,他还有家庭——他将自己的肮脏视为保护世界的必须(看他在fury死后对队长说的话),但是施虐呢?施虐对于他来说是次要的,他已经超越了施虐这个层面了。划分他和Fury还有其他“好人”的界限太模糊了,这就是为什么他变成这样有趣的反派角色。

他在银行金库对冬兵说他们在改变世界的场景有着同样的道理。他将提供牛奶作为一种虚无的礼貌,作为他炫耀自己的绝对权力的支撑,。Bucky不是那个场景(牛奶梗)里真的需要牛奶的访客,就像他不是银行金库里需要鼓舞士气的士兵。他是一件武器,一样被皮尔斯掌控的资产。但皮尔斯不认为自己是残酷的,也不认为自己是施虐狂。一个人被摧毁成这样才能充当为资产实在是一件很可怖的事,但你会为更伟大的利益而行必要之事(指摧毁吧唧)。这并不意味着你不尊重他,哦不。你应当尊敬资产的牺牲,即便你确保他没有别的路可行(以至于吧唧只能牺牲)。

(这不是说皮尔斯建议来杯牛奶是百分百认真的,他只是有贫乏的幽默感和喜欢对荒谬的事情发表看法而已[“It looks like I have the floor”; “You already did (take a bullet for me)”]【这两句是电影里面的台词,因为具体也忘了是什么情景所以翻不出来了,抱歉。】但是玩笑并不是资本【破坏力】的无能,它更多像是“当然,一个致命杀手悄无声息的溜进了我的家,但是你应该无时无刻保持对客人的礼节”。)

这是为什么同人作品里面对于皮尔斯的描绘绝大部分都让我觉得无法接受。他说波哥大事件教会了他破除规则去追求更多的好处,而我觉得我们应该将他的话考虑进来。身为为一辈子都是一个九头蛇,而非一个逐渐滑入黑暗的人,他作为一个纯粹的反派(比别的纯粹的反派)要无趣多了,从来不把他自己看作是世界需要的人之外的任何角色同样的道理,我不能想象他强奸冬兵,因为这并不能证明他是被需要的。他将自己看的太过文明了,他不屑于做这样的事。

人们喜欢看年轻的Robert Redford【皮尔斯扮演者】看起来多么向美国队长。

要不这样想想:队长是的跌倒后悔不断重新站起来的理想主义者,而皮尔斯是堕落的理想主义者。  


pasquey:

  fyeahwintersoldier:         

warrenworthingtonlll:    

The first time I saw Cap2, I thought it was supposed to be a lighthearted moment in the movie. An awkward situation that we could sit back and laugh at Pierce because his offer was completely ignored.

But then I started to read into it.

When someone offers another person a drink, it’s often in a social context, an exchange between friends; but the Winter Soldier doesn’t have friends. He has missions.

He went to Pierce’s house because Pierce was his HQ. The Soldier wasn’t there to have a glass of milk and to talk about the weather; he was there to get his assignment.

Because that’s what the Winter Soldier does. Nothing more. Nothing less. He is the paradigm of efficiency. He is a machine.

But Pierce, even with all of corruption, is still a functioning decision making human. He can indulge in seemingly insignificant luxuries. Pierce can choose to have a glass of milk.

So, when Pierce offered the Winter Solider a drink, he knew that the ‘man’ sitting in front of him would not take him up on it.

This scene is not Alexander Pierce asking the Winter Soldier if he “wants some milk”.

This scene is Pierce gloating. It’s him dangling his ability to exercise his free will over the Winter Soldier. It’s him boasting and bragging simply because he can have two inches of milk. It’s Pierce showing the Winter Soldier that he is, once again, inadequate.

I am not okay.    

This, yes. Pierce is the most corrupted and evil human being on the planet. He might not be the deadliest or the most threatening looking villain in the MCU, but he is the most malicious and unpleasant. The way he manipulates every situation and just the way he degrades Bucky at every turn. I made a comment about how he doesn’t need to do any of this if he can just wipe him and program The Winter Soldier to his will, but he takes his time to exploit his control and brag about the fact that he has Bucky in the palm of his hand and he can easily mold him like clay. 

Just notice the look on Bucky’s face when he is offered milk. There is a big part of him that actually feels provoked by it as if the human part that still exists in Bucky Barnes understands the reasoning behind Pierce’s actions. How he is mocking him and testing him at the same time. Testing his lack of response. But because he has been programmed not to question anything and he has been coerced into believing that he has no voice in the matter, he says nothing. Instead, he waits patiently for Pierce to give him his next assignment. 

Also, the amount of milk that Pierce serves himself is just enough for one drink. A drink for him and no one else. It is like dangling a sip of water in front of a man who is dying of thirst. It is just enough for him to prove his point and honestly I find it way more insulting than if he had served himself a whole glass. And it’s milk. Not water, not juice, not an alcoholic beverage, but milk. Something you offer to a child. Most of all, milk symbolizes superior quality, richness of taste, and nourishment. Superiority.            

Milk is a powerful symbol within most cultural traditions. It is the fluid of eternal life, fertility, abundance; it is the food of the gods, the first human diet, it flows freely in the “promised land of Canaan” (Biederman, 221). Milk symbolizes the MOTHER, it is deeply connected with life itself.       

Fuck you Pierce. 

I don’t think I agree with this. In Alexander Pierce’s mind, he is the good guy, he is rational, he has a family—he’ll dirty himself as necessary to protect the world (see: his speech to Steve after Fury’s death), but sadism? Sadism is for his lessers. He’s above that. It’s what makes him such an interesting villain: because the line that divides him from Fury and other “good guys” is so slim.

It’s the same as why he talked to the Winter Soldier in the bank vault scene about how they were changing the world. He’s offering the milk as an empty courtesy, a way to prop up his sense of his own morality. Bucky’s not an actual guest to be offered refreshments in that scene, just as he’s not a soldier needing a pep talk in the vault. He’s a weapon, a thing which Pierce controls. But Pierce doesn’t see himself as cruel, doesn’t see himself as a sadist. It’s a terrible thing that a man has to be so destroyed to become an asset, but you do what is necessary for the greater good. That doesn’t mean you disrespect him, oh no. You should honor the asset’s sacrifice, even as you ensure he has no other choice.

(Which isn’t to say that he made the milk offer with 100% seriousness. Pierce has a dry sense of humor and likes commenting on the absurdity of situations [“It looks like I have the floor”; “You already did (take a bullet for me)”]. But the joke wasn’t the asset’s powerlessness. It was “Sure, a deadly assassin just snuck into my house. But you should always be courteous to your guests.”)

This is also why most fanfic depictions of Pierce drive me crazy. He says that Bogota was what taught him to break the rules for the greater good, and I think we should take him at his word. He’s so much less interesting as a pure evil character who’s been Hydra his whole life than as someone who gradually slid into darkness, never seeing himself as anything other than the man the world needed (if not always the one it deserved). Similarly, I can’t imagine him raping the Winter Soldier, just because it’d be impossible to justify to himself as necessary. He sees himself as far too civilized for such things.

People love seeing how a young Robert Redford looked like Captain America. Think of it this way: Steve’s the idealist who keeps getting back up. Alexander’s the idealist who fell.


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